Lotsa interesting info here, thanks. I've been poking at this thing all
day with no joy. I can verify that the old PS is dead - no voltage on
any pins, no matter what. I can verify that the new PS is good - it's
pins, including the CPU connector. But that's as far as it goes. The
no display, not a peep or twitch. I can only conclude that the mobo has
failed. Probably the PSU killed it while itself dying. Murder-suicide.
had time to leisurely deal with it. This is a catastrophic failure and
gather components for a new build. I'm inclined to go buy a Dell or
something off-the-shelf.
Post by PaulPost by NilI hope I can get some guidance here. My desktop computer that I
built several years ago just died on me - as I was watching, it
appeared to be going into sleep mode, which it does after some
hours of inactivity. However, it could not be awakened, it was
dead. I immediately thought the power supply had gone bad, and in
fact, I tested it with a multimeter and it was, indeed dead - no
voltage detectable on any pin. So, I bought a new PS of similar
specs. Now, the motherboard (ASUS Prime Z270-K) lights up, but
there is no other activity, no fans going, no display, no disc
drives spinning. I can only wonder if when the PS blew it took
out the mobo or some other component.
So, my question is, 'what can/should I do now to confirm that the
mobo is truly, irretrievably gone?' If I can't, I will proceed
toward a new build or buy, but if I can revive the existing one,
VERY much the better. After all, it's tuned to a fair-thee-well
and I don't look forward to going through months of tweaking to
get it to that point again.
Aside... A year or so ago I replaced the mechanical boot drive
with an SSD drive. If THAT had gone bad, would the mobo not still
boot with at least a display and error message?
The indicator of PSU death, might be something like the state of
Pin 9. If the PSU is plugged in, the PSU makes +5VSB which
functions as a "supervisor voltage" and it's on Pin 9.
Anything on the motherboard needing supervision (while asleep,
soft off, hibernating) then some +5VSB would be handy for that.
If PS_ON# is driven to Ground (logic 0), that's a Wired-Or capable
signal that you can ground to test that a PSU works (the main
portion, and its internal fan). If you ground PS_ON#, the fan
should spin (on a PSU with a "normal" kind of fan curve -- some
PSU don't spin the fan until the unit hits 50C inside which is
unfortunate).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX#Power_supply
Purple +5VSB Pin 9
When the PSU is doing the job of making +5VSB (used by USB ports),
it does not need to use the fan for that. Some PSUs get kinda warm
doing that (a Bestek in front of me, blows a cloud of warm air out
at startup, as proof the +5VSB thing was running). More modern
supplies use an SMPS for +5VSB and are more efficient and have
less waste heat.
The integrated circuit that drives PS_ON# to ground, it needs
power and that power source is +5VSB. You can drive PS_ON# to
ground yourself, with a wire to a black ground, or a wire plus a
switch (if you want a convenience switch for turning it on and
off).
A motherboard that cannot drive PS_ON# to ground, then that
motherboard will never get to spin the fans or make any other
happy noises.
And PS_ON# signal failures are fairly frequent, for unknown
reasons.
At one time, the driver for that on some motherboards, was a
Fairchild 74F with 64mA drive capability. Which gave me a good
chuckle, because it said "this here motherboard is not taking NO
for an answer".
Later designs only had 8mA drive and were more easily
pistol-whipped into failure. The circuit really should never need
more than 2mA of sinking capability. But I think the individual
who was using the 64mA drive, that guy deserves a medal :-) You
want an IC that will "catch fire" rather than take NO for an
answer.
*******
You CAN do ohms tests between rails. With the 24-pin connector
open, you could ohm from +5V to GND, +12V to GND and so on.
But be aware there could be 2000uF of bypass caps on such a rail,
and this makes it hard to distinguish what you're measuring
(the dead short of a charging capacitor).
The PSU has a Power_Good signal. It indicates the rails have
charged to min-voltages. Maybe Power_Good is logic 1, any time
+12V is above about +11V or so.
The motherboard also has an internal Power_Good of its own.
All the tiny power converters on the motherboard, that make
1.5V, 1.8V, 2.5V, and so on, those can have status indicators
that say they are working nominally.
The motherboard can only come out of RESET, when all the
Power_Good are logic 1. The Reset generator might have a
half-second pulse on it, but the Power_Good extends the
board-level RESET for as long as it takes for Power_Good
to go to logic 1.
After about 35 milliseconds or so, the PSU starts to check
for overcurrent. The 35 milliseconds gives time for the PSU
to charge the motherboard bypass capacitors. The 35 millisecond
period where it does not check for overcurrent, causes computer
case fans to "twitch" and then you know PS_ON# was asserted,
the PSU did try to start, but it tripped off on overcurrent.
And normally, you have to (slowly( toggle the switch on the
back OFF. Then wait 60 seconds and turn it ON again, to attempt
another start. Seeing a fan twitch, is a "symptom" to record
in your lab report :-)
Mobo VCore is a rather large SMPS, and capable of a couple hundred
watts of output. On the machine I'm typing on, VCore varies
between 0.35V and maybe 1.2V or so, at up to 200 amps. It should
have a Power_Good indicator too, and the CPU cannot be started,
unless VCore is nominally working. When the CPU socket is empty,
the VID signals float to logic 1, and the VCore all-1s code
is "shut off". The motherboard will not arm VCore, if the socket
is empty. This also means the motherboard would not enable all
Power_Good, if the CPU was missing. Not that it would matter
in that case, of course.
You can see that all of the power conversion machinery must
be in top-rate form, for the CPU to start running firmware code.
Nothing short of perfection, will work, when it comes to power.
But if the +12V comes on, you should be hearing case fans spin.
*******
I've had two motherboard failures now (P4C800-E ICH, P5E
X48/ICH10), and the failures seemed to be Southbridge/PCH and
something to do with one of the five converters that feed the
Southbridge. But once the SB is cooked, you'd have a load of fun
trying to fix that (hot air station, on motherboards not intended
to be repaired).
*******
The PSU can fail if the slow-blow fuse inside it, blows open
circuit. That hardly ever happens. If the 11kV outside your house,
fell on the 230V wire, then that would be sufficient to blow the
fuse. The fuse of course, is not rated for 11kV, so there would be
mondo damage. In any case, it would take an extreme event to
blow the fuse. Minimum would be a close lightning hit. That
might do it. Plus fry a lot of other shit.
Paul